Alexis
Powell-Howard: Hi and welcome to the Keeping the Peace podcast with me, Alexis Powell-Howard. Today I’m joined by Sergeant Mark Mottashed of Lancashire Police. Hi Mark.
Mark Mottashed: Hi.
Alexis
Powell-Howard: We’re going to be talking today about self-care and the duty of self-care, which backs up a webinar that I will be delivering on the 9th February to the National Police Wellbeing Service for Oscar Kilo so if anybody has been along to watch the webinar this will back it up. If you haven't seen the webinar that’s fine too because the subjects we’re going to be talking about will be relevant to anybody, really, around self-care and it’s, obviously, a hot topic at the moment with lockdowns and everyone having to, kind of, think about themselves a bit more differently than usual.
Mark, would you just introduce yourself a bit and just say about your role and your time in the police, just so people know a bit about you.
Mark Mottashed: Yes. I’ll start with the standard [unintelligible 00:00:53] where I’ve been a cop for 14 years. I’m currently in an office role at the moment within corporate development, I’ve been there for the last 12 months. Prior to that I’ve had a bit of a mixed past, I was in organisational development for four months, prior to that I was in the force control room as a team leader and also as a demand reduction unit for, I think, just over 12 months again.
Prior to that it was five years on the armed response unit and then prior to that it was on and off for the best part of four years acting/temping sergeant. Then before that I did my time on normal response in the St Anne’s area and a bit of community beat management over at Blackpool town centre, as well. So quite a varied career, I’d say.
Alexis
Powell-Howard: Yes, I was going to say, there’s lots of different chunks of time there doing lots of different responsibilities, isn’t there, lots of different roles.
Mark Mottashed: Yes.
Alexis
Powell-Howard: Obviously, we’re talking today about self-care, so I’m assuming that you have an interest in self-care and wellbeing for us to be having this conversation, am I right?
Mark Mottashed: Yes. It was first introduced to me by a colleague of mine called Neil who works for Oscar Kilo, commonly referred to as being jobbed, in the job. Me and Neil used to work with each other on the van management unit, he actually mentored me for a good six months, and we both have an interest in personal development. So we would talk often about that and have some quite candid conversations about first line management and some of the resilience needed and perhaps some behaviours that we were witnessing from other line managers that perhaps insinuated that they were struggling with their resilience.
And, you know, sharing personal experience, as well, you know, it’s not a walk in the park for anyone, leadership, and we would often discuss or certainly share new insights into what we’ve read, what we’ve listened to and, yes, just share experiences.
Alexis
Powell-Howard: You can often find can’t you, as well, just thinking about leadership, that people are often picking up how to be a leader from the leaders around them, you know, you might have leadership training but, actually, fundamentally it’s what you experience, isn’t it? And I think wellbeing and self-care is one of those aspects that if leaders are struggling or if that isn’t part of the culture of the organisation and those conversations aren't happening you’ve almost got to seek it out somewhere else, really, to be able to, kind of, think about it and think about yourself in that context as well.
Mark Mottashed: Yes, absolutely. Yes, most learning is done by peer learning, isn’t it? I mean, what’s gone on with [unintelligible 00:03:43], to be fair, I think we’re quite good welfare wise, certainly with our chief running Oscar Kilo, being a national lead. And I’ve seen the work that’s been done by Neil and Julie, as well, who used to head it up, and we do a lot of good things. There’s a lot of compassion in Lancs to try and improve the wellbeing side, both from police officer and police staff side so, yes.
Alex
Powell-Howard: So when you’re thinking about that for yourself then why have you got that keen interest in it, why were you, kind of, reading and sharing those ideas with Neil?
Mark Mottashed: I think it probably started when I took my exams, my sergeant exams early doors, so I started leadership in the police from year three onwards and, to be honest, retrospectively it was probably a bit too early for me. I know you’ve got to start somewhere so I won’t be too harsh on myself, but yes it was just dealing with that aspect.
Now, I came from the military police for four years so my background, if you wanted someone to do something it was very command and control, you have to do this, and if anyone ever asked why it was because we were the military police and that’s what we’re expected to do. So as far as telling people to do things it was a very easy environment because of the command and control, you know, that’s why it’s there sometimes.
So I identified when I was taking over a team, even though I had all the aspirations to do a really good job, there were some real times that required quite a bit of resilience. Certainly when you’re starting afresh and you’re trying to make the best decisions perhaps you lack that experience. But what really stood out for me during leadership is that you could make a string of decision throughout the shift, throughout the set of shifts and they could all be right.
And then you would make one decision and that was it, you know, through trying to do the best thing, however, you would make a bad decision, that was deemed bad by the team, and it very quickly turned sour, or not as in unprofessional but they wouldn’t be happy with your decision. And I think, yes, I lacked resilience back then because it really did affect me.
It didn’t affected me professionally as in I wouldn’t change my mind unless it was warranted, you know, I wouldn’t run off in fits of tears. But what I did notice was that when I was at home after the shift I would think on that decision over and over again, OK, what could I have done wider, wider, and just kept replaying that. So, you know, having recognised that I thought, OK, perhaps I need to work on my resilience.
So it was as simple as just going through Google and looking at, OK, how to improve resilience and, yes, that’s kind of where it stemmed from. And doing that research, kind of, reinforces some of my values and beliefs around leadership. Again, that’s just grown over time and I think it genuinely does, I mean, there are some leadership aspects which a lot of people do have but for me I think what has grown over the years is the accountability and responsibility of leadership.
If you’re willing to put your hand up and say, yes, I want to be a leader, I want to manage this team, then you need to accept accountability and responsibility. And to do that, before that comes resilience and then resilience, as we know, is then supported by and originates from self-care. So if you’re not looking after yourself and your allowing, like I did early on in my career, for those thoughts to affect me, if you’re not getting a grip on that and trying to address it then it can take its toll.
Alexis
Powell-Howard: And it’s recognising those thoughts can be really difficult to manage, can’t they, because that kind of overthinking and ruminating almost on decisions that you’ve made, things you can’t actually undo, they’ve been done, you’ve already moved away from it, if you like, in terms of time, the impact might be something you’re still having to manage. But the thoughts can be something that can really derail your confidence, can’t they, if you’re not, kind of, conscious of actually being a bit kinder to yourself.
Recognising the impact of what you’ve been making decision about over maybe a series of shifts and, you know, how you’ve maybe tried to manage people and all the context to that, actually, you can become very self-critical and I think that really affects resilience, doesn’t it, in terms of managing people, as well?
Mark Mottashed: Yes. I completely agree. And I think it’s important to note it’s not just isolated to police, this is leadership across the board. Granted in the emergency services and the NHS, you know, when you’re dealing with sometimes life and death situations, yes, the resilience needs to be perhaps a bit more resilient at times compared to other roles. But, yes, in every leadership role you’re going to face the complications of people.
And I have these discussions with a wide range of my friends who are in different roles and I know certainly because I started relatively early on, I was about 26 I think, which I still thought was relatively young for management. But from then I was constantly talking to, I still do talk to people who are either in leadership positions or starting leadership positions and this is the kind of stuff I would tell them.
Listen, you can read a lot of books about leadership and it will tell you a lot of stuff about do this, strategic vision, plan this or say this, but it doesn’t really deal with the intricacies and the difficult side of leadership which is performance management or, yes, having difficult and authentic conversations with staff and dealing with confrontation. Which, you know, I love that phrase which everyone says, including me at times, when they go, I don’t like confrontation. And the reality is no one likes confrontation but it is a real part of leadership at times.
And I think that, going back to my comment about, it’s not just the police, I think there’s a lack of guidance out there, or certainly easily accessible guidance to say, this is how you do it. Again, I think that stems from people lacking that resilience and the training side and the knowledge to address it, so if you’ve got a problem it’s far easier to not address it than …
Alexis
Powell-Howard: Avoidance is key.
Mark Mottashed: Yes, exactly. So, yes, sorry, I’ve gone off on a tangent now.
Alexis
Powell-Howard: No, I was just thinking there about that idea around, you know, if you are leading others, you’re right, in terms of, actually, you can do lots of leadership training, you can do lots of reading around it. But it is about what you’re modelling as a leader for the people that are in the team that you’re manging, how open you are to people and that, kind of, human interaction, as well.
That it would be really easy if you could just direct people and they just did as they were told and there was no emotion around any of that. Because as much as you want to take that out of the conversation it’s definitely there because we’re people and we’re social beings so you can’t avoid it, can you. So whatever you’re doing as a leader or whether you’re working in a team there’s always going to be those interactions. And I think when you do leadership training you can learn the theory of it but whether or not you actually change fundamentally your approach as a person is another thing because you’ve got to really engage with it on that level, on that deeper level.
Mark Mottashed: Yes. Agreed. I think what does help with that is having a support network of leaders around you, and I have really focused on that over the latter part of my career to try and … I think sometimes promotion gears you up to competition and there’s some good things with that because, obviously, you want to try and do your best and competition creates exactly that. But what I have found, certainly towards the last four years, is that I found it better to have an aligned leadership team who all support each other to deal with those difficult problems.
It’s all to easy when you see a supervising struggling who you think is not doing a good job, it’s all too easy to perhaps criticise, you know, at water cooler chats. When actually, really, what I think they should be doing is recognising that they’re struggling, going over, offering them support and advice and then forming that form of – I know this sounds corporate – but aligned leadership or support network to then address those issues that they’re struggling with. For example, the resilience around some staff issues.
I keep mentioning leadership because, I mean, I automatically see leadership as doing exactly the same for your staff, it isn’t just for leaders, you know, that example can be done with staff as well. In fact, it should be, that’s the whole part of accountability and responsibility of your role to address the welfare needs of your staff. But it also should extend to your colleagues and also your line management, as well, you know, offering them support.
Alexis
Powell-Howard: Yes. Because you just said there about support network and from a self-care, resilience, mental health, you know, all of the stuff that we’re talking about, your support network is really important, isn’t it, because that’s what keep you buoyant. And questioning colleagues and being able to see that they’re struggling, what are the signs of struggle and being able to step in, what do I need to do, what help do I need.
Because I think that context is really important that, like you say, you can see behaviours and think, they’re not performing, or, they’ve let us down, all that kind of thing. But actually what’s going on, what’s going on behind that behaviour and supporting them with that rather than it becoming, like, a critical kind of, you know, negative response to it.
Mark Mottashed: Yes, and I suppose that’s where the self-care side kind of links in, because I’ve experienced that in the past and I’m still susceptible to that, I always will be I think, you know, leadership is always a learning curve, you’re never the finished leader. So recognising that in myself and then also recognising it in other people.
A big tell-tale sign for me that someone is struggling, certainly as a leader, is when they become – and this is quite common as you should imagine in our role - is quite the robust, macho approach to dealing with staff where it’s almost peacocking. I think not always but certainly in my experience it would indicate that someone is actually struggling when they’re doing that and they feel like they need to create a shell.
So if I witness stuff like that, or certainly if I see people withdrawing certainly as management and not addressing perhaps minor things, which someone would perhaps say something and then it would almost be challenging the manager and it would be embarrassing for them to challenge so they would perhaps walk off, or not walk off, just be a bit meek towards it. I would recognise that as, oh, OK, I’ve been there I know that’s quite difficult to address.
And I would have discussions with them and I do, and say, OK, you know, on a case by case basis sometimes people don’t react well if you turn up and say, I think you’re struggling. If you say, how are you, and then start explaining … the tactic I’ve used in the past is I start explaining issues I’ve had and errors that I’ve made, what about you, how are you finding it? And then you would start that or get them to open up and say, it’s OK to talk about this, I’ve experienced it in the past, this is how it’s worked for me, I’ll give you some help and support surrounding it, exactly like you would do for staff.
Alexis
Powell-Howard: Yes, absolutely. It’s that, kind of, talking about it, isn’t it, and creating an opportunity for conversation rather than walking away and just ignoring what you’re seeing, that’s one of the main things.
You’re listening to the Keeping the Peace podcast brought to you in partnership with Fortis Therapy and Training, Oscar Kilo and Humberside Police.
So when we were talking about with the self-care wheel, which I know the people that are listening may not have come across, but it’s similar idea to the life wheel, there’s all sorts of different ideas out there if people want to Google them to get a rough idea about it. But I sent you my version of the wheel for you to complete and it’s broken down into sections around all sorts of aspects of life, really, you know, from stress levels and time management and relaxation, clutter, time out, exercise, diet.
All the things that we think about from a mental health and emotional wellbeing perspective are captured in the wheel and it’s something that I’ve developed over the years and used a lot in training and with a lot of police officers, as well. So you’ve taken the time out to complete that for me so we can have a chat about it today, we’re not going to go through it section by section but I just wondered how you’d felt, kind of, reflecting on your self-care at the minute. Because, obviously, we’re in lockdown three, lots of things happening around us, what were your thoughts about it?
Mark Mottashed: Well, first of all with regards to COVID I think myself and certainly most colleagues in the police and emergency services do consider themselves lucky that we’re still employed. You know, there’s nothing much changed for me, I’ve still been going to work so I’ve still had that routine. Yes, so I just want to acknowledge the fact that even though we are discussing it my circumstances are by no means as difficult as others and I’m by no means professing that.
I forget to mention at the start, as well, and this is something I was conscious of, I’m not a self-care guru.
Alexis
Powell-Howard: It’s too late now.
Mark Mottashed: I wouldn’t profess to be so, yes. So I’m looking at this wheel, yes, things that stuck out for me was the exercise/movement and diet, and that’s not a cop out, I know that probably looks like that’s probably the least emotionally demanding thing to talk about. But I have recognised at the moment I’ve done a lot of office based for the last 12 months and, obviously, we’ve not been able to go out as much as well, yes, my diet and exercise has really dropped.
That was what stood out for me on this wheel because those are important things, you know, I had quite a healthy upbringing, obviously, in the jobs that I’ve done previously and the roles I’ve had to keep fit. And I enjoy keeping fit, as well, I don’t see it as a chore, but I have noticed, and this could be to do with age as well, that the waistline is creeping.
Alexis
Powell-Howard: We’ll blame that, we’ll blame that.
Mark Mottashed: Yes, on the wrong side of the belt. So, yes, that stuck out. Time with my family and friends, now that was low but, as you can see, I’ve put there COVID-19, I think that really has an impact. I know you can talk to them by telephone and what not, but actually just with your mates. I mean, I’ve got a few friends but there’s a tight group of three of us and one of them has moved to America not too long ago. And then another one is actually a paramedic and he’s just busy, you know, as you could imagine he’s working all the shifts he can just to try and keep us above water and we don’t see our friend over in America.
And I do miss that, and we do catch up occasionally on WhatsApp and it is really hard so I feel really buoyed up when we do a voice message and we probably should do that more often. So, I need to speak to Mike and Trev probably more and family as well, of course. I do keep in regular contact with them, I mean, I’ve got a hoard of nieces and nephews and obviously with COVID and doing the job that I do, as well, we’ve got to be really strict with what we can and can’t do. So, you know, unfortunately we’ve missed birthdays, we can only drop things off, we can’t go in and properly say hello to them and give them a hug, so yes, that stood out for me on this wheel.
Alexis
Powell-Howard: Yes. I mean, even though you know the context of that, COVID-19 and the impact of that, there is that social aspect in both of those, isn’t there? Because I’ve been thinking about, obviously, we’ve been told to socially distance but, actually, it’s the physical distance that we need to do, the social stuff is the stuff we really, really need to do. Because, like you said, you come off and you feel buoyed up and it can just lift you sometimes, not necessarily that you’re in a low place particularly but it’s just nice to have that conversation with someone who knows you really well and you can have that banter and check in with each other and all of that stuff.
Mark Mottashed: Yes. I agree.
Alexis
Powell-Howard: Any other segments that kind of stuck out for you?
Mark Mottashed: The being mindful thing, I know we had a chat previous to this, didn’t we, about the stuff I’d looked at and, again, it was one of my friends who … I was on [AIB? 00:20:59] at the time and just due to lack of staffing we were doing 12 hour shifts constantly. I remember being tired and run down and going for a drink with him once and he just always seemed to have a calm air about him throughout the previous six months. And I asked him about it because I just felt a bit, you know, stressed and tired, and he started talking about mindfulness.
He was very guarded with it, as lads are, you know, I think he used the phrase, you might think it’s woo woo, he said, but I do this mindfulness thing. And I’m thinking, oh gosh, is he going to go all top knot and sit on a yoga mat. But, yes, he talked about it and got me onto [unintelligible 00:21:41].
Alexis
Powell-Howard: The Power of Now, yes, yes.
Mark Mottashed: Actually, I think it was the New Earth that I read, it was about … But I’ve also listened to the Power of Now as well, so it’s like, yes, being in the moment and being mindful. That for me was quite high on there and, I suppose, in layman’s terms it’s about being mindful before it puts people off about sitting around in [unintelligible 00:22:05] shirts. And it’s just about recognising what your actual emotional state is, it’s all linking into emotional intelligence which is I know a big thing that is discussed at Lancs Police. I know Daniel Goldman does a lot around it, doesn’t he?
But, yes, just being mindful and recognising when you’re in a good mood, you’re in a bad mood, and when is best to interact with people or have particular conversations. And just recognising that when you are perhaps in a worse mood that it’s OK to be like that, just recognising it. The big indicator for me is driving to work in the morning and if there is someone behind me fairly close I can see in my rear view mirror I will perhaps grumble something. Even though it happens almost every day when I recognise that I think, oh yes, I’m tired, OK, I need to get some coffee, get some water.
Alexis
Powell-Howard: Yes, less capacity.
Mark Mottashed: Yes. Or don’t have certain conversations that day. So, you know, I really advocate people just looking into mindfulness, and do not be put off by it like I was previously, thinking you’re going to sit around with a load of hippies in a circle chanting. It’s actually about just taking that time out, simple breathing exercises, and just recognising where you are, and not being too hard on yourself, as well. You know, if you’ve had a bad day and you’ve done something which you’re not particularly happy about or you’ve said a comment or you’ve thought a particular thing because you’re angry, it's OK to be like that, just take some time out for yourself.
Alexis
Powell-Howard: I think that’s really important, that acceptance part, you know, because we are our own worst critics quite often, aren't we, and quite often what I see is people who have very high standards for themselves and when we can’t meet those standards suddenly, you know, there’s lots of things around not being good enough and feeling bad and guilty and shame and all of those really strong emotions which are really heavy. And I think just simple things, like you’ve just described there, like observing and tracking how you’re doing.
And I think one of the things for me with mindfulness is that if you can actually create opportunities just to breathe properly, you know, there doesn’t have to be hours and hours of it, like you say, you’re not sat on a yoga mat kind of floating. It’s not about that, it’s about just actually looking after yourself and observing, what are my thoughts doing, you know, what am I feeling and what’s going on.
Because you can be in it sometimes far too much and you don’t get that perspective because you’ve literally got your head down and if you can actually stand up and see what’s going on in your head and reflect on it that way you’re probably going to get more opportunity to actually take control of how you’re feeling.
Mark Mottashed: Yes. I see it a lot and I’ve experienced it, as well, during the early temps and promotion, you know, people are in the promotion process and you’re that focused on trying to do it and that worried that, actually, I see people coming back after rest days during the process and they’ll say, do you know what, I’m not sure I want it. I’ve been there and had those conversations and I say, listen, what you’re feeling is absolutely fine, you know, you’ve actually thought, what’s going on, I’ve been so busy on the treadmill I’ve not actually, like you said, put your head up to say, where am I going here, is the thing I want to do. Yes, and recognising that in others has been helpful, I think.
Alexis
Powell-Howard: Yes, and I think part of that is factoring in space to have those thoughts, because I think reflection is part of that and I think sometimes we’re just running at full pelt and you don’t get chance to actually reflect on, like you just said, is this actually something I want.
Mark Mottashed: Yes.
Alexis
Powell-Howard: You know, ultimately, the answer still might be yes but what does it mean and why am I feeling the way I’m feeling and that kind of thing, and actually breaking it down a bit rather than just feeling overwhelmed.
Mark Mottashed: Yes, and I think that’s why annual leave is so important, and just having your work/life balance as well. Because something I’ve had and I’m always complimented on by my friends and family, is that I tend to keep quite a distinct line between work and home life. I think I’m lucky with that because where I’m at at the moment it doesn’t dictate I need to do that and I recognise that the further you go up in the organisation that home/life balance, at your own choice, will have to change because there’s far more impetus on you.
But, yes, I do have a distinct line and sometimes [unintelligible 00:26:32], well, it does come off exactly like I’m not a sociable person, but I do like to keep work and home life very separate. I don’t go on that many social functions, again, it’s not because … I used to when I was younger, I think like most did, but I always think I like to keep that gap. And I’m not saying that’s right or wrong, that just works for me.
I like to think I apply myself at work and then I do think about work a lot at home, certainly when it comes to if I’m pushing for promotion or working on particularly projects or making some decisions or making some bad decisions I think about it a lot. So for me what works is to have that distinct gap between home and work.
Alexis
Powell-Howard: Is that something that you consciously decided to do or has that evolved as time has gone on and, you know what I mean, that’s just a natural boundary you’ve put in place?
Mark Mottashed: It’s difficult to say without actually sound the exact opposite, but I like to say I have a bit of humility. So when I was in the army four years prior to the police I was very conscious about – and I’ve got my friend to thank for this – that I could never come back and say, I was in the army, I’ve done this, I’ve done that, it just wouldn’t happen. It was just, like, Mark, wind your neck in, you’re just one of the lads.
Alexis
Powell-Howard: Yes, stop it.
Mark Mottashed: And I never wanted to be like that anyway but it was always nice to be surrounded by people who would ground you. It became a bit of a joke, actually, because we would say something, oh yes, I just did such and such, I went for a run. Oh, how far? About six miles. They’re like, right. I go, yes, but I’m in the army, you know. And that still sticks now, they still say it to me now, so I’ve always recognised it.
That was a real distinct difference because you were at work 24/7 and then when you were off you were off, you know, you didn’t go to work you were off for a good two weeks. Then I thought, OK, right, when I join the police, recognising that it can swallow you up at times. Because when I was in the military police I used to hang around with colleagues who were in the police as well and I could see how some were distant but some were really involved. And, yes, I just never wanted to, as I say, it never worked for me to lean towards getting fully involved in my job.
So I think, yes, that difference between the army being so distinct, kind of, bled into the police and it just works for me. Like I said, there is no right or wrong, you know, some people it works for them that their social life is work or colleagues from work and I think there’s some benefit in that. It’s just, yes, it didn’t work for me, I felt like I was perhaps giving up a bit too much.
Alexis
Powell-Howard: And I think that’s really key, as well, that you’ve found that that works for you, that’s probably because of that conditioning that there was that, kind of, you’re all in or you’re all out of it in the army days. But making those choices that fit for you as an individual is really important because you can get I think sometimes influenced, peer support can be really positive and it can also have, obviously, negative impacts, as well. And you can be influenced to go along with what you think is the right thing to do because that’s what other people are doing, but it might not work for you.
So it’s making choices, isn’t it, that actually create time for self-care, time for time out, days off, all of that as well.
Mark Mottashed: Yes, agreed. I find probably that, because like I said before your leadership style and your skills are always evolving, but one thing for me, having just got into a bit more of the corporate wheel side of things where politics are very real and a necessary thing. And I struggled with that transition if I’m honest at the start, where I came from an operational background, I was very focused on – the phrase I would use – getting it right for the troops. And a decision would perhaps be made that I wouldn’t necessarily agree with, and I got into a bit of, I’d say, a bit of a cycle.
I found that where I was, like, I don’t agree with it, you know, it’s a bit ambiguous and then I’d think, am I being really effective in the role that I’m doing, is it what I wanted to do. Yes, and that was, as I say, a bit of a small cycle, nothing major it was just something that I recognised. Then I thought, oh, actually, and what really came through and, again, clarified my leadership approach was just authenticity.
So when it came to a decision I found myself doing almost like double, triple, quadruple feedback loops in my head, thinking what do the politics say about this, what do the politics say about that. Which, again, are important but I would always say, what is the right thing to do, an authentic approach. And I found that was really good at just me putting my foot on the ball and saying, OK, this is the right thing to do so this is what I should be doing.
I’m not saying that politics and the right thing to do never marry up, quite often they do. It’s just whenever I was struggling or lacked the experience to understand the political reason for it I would always harp back to, OK, what’s the right thing to do, what do I think is the right thing to do, and that really would centre my approach.
Alexis
Powell-Howard: I was going to say, it grounds you, that idea of what’s the right thing to do just grounds you straight away, doesn’t it, because all that noise of all the other perspectives and perceptions, like you say, the politics of things it can really detract from, actually, coming back to the decision you can make with what you’ve got at that time.
Mark Mottashed: Yes. I would advocate that but, again, that might be a naïve notion because there are bigger decisions afoot sometimes, aren't there?
Alexis
Powell-Howard: Yes, but I think you can apply that to just personally, you know, what’s the right thing to do for me, what’s grounding me in this decision I’m making. Because often what I see, especially with officers and staff when we’re working with them therapeutically, is that you can get really drawn into what’s the right thing to do for somebody else. I don’t mean actually in the workplace, I just mean generally, you know, knowing how to help someone or how to … Because of what you do for a living, you know, that’s what you do every day and to actually not have to do that personally and step away from it and go, actually, that’s not the right thing for me, it’s the right thing for them but not necessarily for me, is actually quite a different mindset.
Mark Mottashed: Yes. I was thinking about this the other day and I thought I might bring it to your attention and see what your thoughts are on it. The dichotomy of being in the police or emergency services, more so the police, is that you’re trying to do the best thing for people, however, you will quite often see the worst of people. And does that manifest – obviously without giving away too much detail – but do you find that manifests itself a lot with police officers, they struggle with that?
Alexis
Powell-Howard: Yes. Because I think you know what people are capable off, whereas, the general public might have an idea but they don’t see it for real. So, you know, what your fantasy about that might be in the general public can be one thing but, actually, when you’re dealing with it every day and you’re trying to find your way through that. You know, you’ve got your own moral compass, if you like, and your own ways of working which keep you, hopefully, on that straight and narrow, although that doesn’t always happen but, you know, most of the time. And I think it can create quite a lot of conflict because then when you’re dealing with that every day and then you’re trying to, kind of, have a family life and friendships and everything else you’re perspective is automatically different.
Mark Mottashed: Yes, OK.
Alexis
Powell-Howard: Do you see what I mean?
Mark Mottashed: Yes, more geared towards are you being defensive or seeing negative sides of people.
Alexis
Powell-Howard: Yes, and trust, trust being difficult as well because, essentially, you’re trained to question and investigate and think about and try and put pieces together and that kind of thing. It’s a bit like me as a therapist, you know, how I’m trained to think, it’s having to, kind of, learn how to maybe switch some of that off so that you don’t have to do that all the time outside of work, as well as in work.
Mark Mottashed: Yes, got you. In fact, yes, I watched something recently, I think it was on a Ted Talk, it was about a therapist who said he was in an elevator in New York, he’d finished a long day and his neighbour said, how are you, and he just couldn’t answer him. He said, he had to build that resilient wall and figure out when to switch off and when not to switch off. Mind you, I’ve not done much research into therapy, that’s the first time and, yes, quite eye opening that that is an issue for them.
Alexis
Powell-Howard: Well, I got an email off an officer today who I do work with and it asked me how I was, so I gave him a response. And he knows me really well and he came back with, that was very corporate. I was, like, OK, if you want the real answer, here you go. But it is, it’s knowing when to switch it off and who you can do that with, and I think it’s just for police officers to be able to do that smoothly. And I think when you’re under a lot of pressure, as well, you know, working a lot of hours and everything else, it’s just trying to, kind of, keep an eye on that balance between what you’re taking on at work and how you’re seeing things and what you’re doing outside of work.
Mark Mottashed: Right. So what’s what you would advocate then, just that balance, a bit of mindfulness?
Alexis
Powell-Howard: Yes. And just keeping yourself in mind, because I think that’s the thing that can almost drop off the list, you know, everybody else is important, the job’s important, but whereabouts are you on that list. Are you at the bottom of it or are you actually at the top so you’re looking after yourself first and then you look after everybody else? It’s tempting to just kind of go, it doesn’t matter about me, I’ll negate me and my needs and I’ll look after everybody else.
Mark Mottashed: Yes, OK, that makes sense.
Alexis
Powell-Howard: Well, that’s really gone really quickly, I feel like we’ve covered loads of ground there, as well. Thanks for coming to talk to me, Mark, I really appreciate it.
If there’s anybody out there who wants to ask for more information or get in touch then by all means get in touch on the social media platforms for Oscar Kilo or Fortis Therapy and Training and we’ll definitely come back to you.
Thanks for your time, Mark.
Mark Mottashed: Thank you. I’ve enjoyed it.
Alexis
Powell-Howard: Thank you. Thanks a lot.
Thanks you for listening to the Keeping the Peace podcast, it’s available wherever you listen to your podcasts and if you subscribe you will be notified of the next episode as soon as its available. We’d love to hear your feedback and ideas for future podcasts so please do comment or get in touch on our social media platforms for either Fortis Therapy and Training or Oscar Kilo.
